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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 08:32 PDT
From: xxltony@crash.cts.com (Tony Lindsey)
Subject: Mac*Chat#086/17-Aug-95
Mac*Chat#086/17-Aug-95
======================
Welcome to Mac*Chat, the free, weekly electronic newsletter biased
toward Mac users who are production-oriented professionals. Other
Mac users may find many, many items of interest as well. I'd enjoy
hearing your feedback and suggestions. Unfortunately, due to the
massive numbers of messages I get every day, I can't guarantee
a personal reply.
Tony Lindsey, <xxltony@cts.com>.
http://www.cts.com/browse/xxltony
Mac*Chat back-issues may be found within any Info-Mac ftp archive at
info-mac/per/chat
See the end of this file for legalisms and info on how to subscribe.
Any [comments in brackets] are by Tony Lindsey.
Topics:
Highlights Of This Issue
Being Part Of A Community
Excellent Tips
Favorite Freeware
Excellent Questions For The Week
Charities Need Help
More About Claris Works 4.0
Tips For Consultants
Online Support For Consultants
Online User Groups
Boston MacWorld '95 Reviewed
Legalisms
Free Subscriptions To This Newsletter
Highlights Of This Issue
------------------------
Jeff Porten shares some of his newest nuggets of wisdom, Mel
Halbert tells us about a whole pile of exccellent software,
several readers ask questions of wide interest, a representative
of a charity presents an idea, ClarisWorks4 gets further reviewed
by more readers, Jeff Porten talks about the Macintosh Consultant
Network, Michael Robertson tells consultants where to get the
best software and tips, a Belgian Mac User Group is revealed
online, and Shrimmy raves about the newest Boston MacWorld.
Being Part Of A Community
-------------------------
By Tony Lindsey <xxltony@cts.com>
Editing a newsletter like Mac*Chat has forced a few changes in my
viewpoints, and I feel that I'm a better person for it. I'd like
to spend a few paragraphs talking about this.
Anyone who spends more than a couple of minutes online becomes
aware of the noise and extreme levels of diversity that exist on
the other side of your screen. People who normally would only be
found under rocks are online and in your face. On the other
hand, kind, decent, mature people have also been finding their
way around, and are congregating into affinity groups of all
kinds. Of course, we all have our own interpretation of "good"
versus "bad." That's expected.
Mac*Chat's readers, if gathered into a BIG stadium, would be a
very, very diverse group. As a soft-headed idealist, I like to
think that what we share is a sense of courtesy, plus a
willingness to give something to our sub-group of the planetary
community. Wisdom is a fine gift, and civility is a great way to
express it. I use those qualities as the main criteria to select
which messages get passed along.
I'm glad we can't see the faces of the folks who share their
helpful tips in every issue. Rather than being pre-judged by
external features, sex, or locality, Mac*Chat's contributors are
able to express their more-important qualities and inborn
talents. I like that.
Speaking of locality, Mac*Chat is being read and contributed to
by your brothers and sisters in Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina,
Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bermuda, Brazil, Canada, Costa Rica,
the Czech Republic, Denmark, Fiji, Finland, France, Germany,
Great Britain, Greece, Hong Kong, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia,
Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Korea, Kuwait, Latvia,
Luxembourg, the Mariana Islands, Malaysia, Mexico, the
Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Saudi-Arabia,
Singapore, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland,
Taiwan, Thailand, the Ukraine, the USA, Venezuela, and Zimbabwe.
Did I miss anyone?
The planet is very small. Let's work together to help each
other. I like to think I'm doing my part, through editing
Mac*Chat, acting as Neighborhood Watch Block Captain in my
neighborhood, raising my nephew as my own son, and being a good
consultant, friend, brother, son and husband. I don't aspire to
more.
When people use the Internet or traditional media to attempt to
force their views on others, I find it humorous. Someone once
said "Fads come from the top down - Trends come from the bottom
up." I like to think this means that real, important changes
can't be forced on the general public, by leaders (or folks who
want to be leaders). No matter how hard some folks may try, they
can't influence our planetary society as much as kindness and
honesty among trusted friends.
If you feel the same way, pass it along to the next person.
Excellent Tips
--------------
By Jeff Porten, Millennium Consulting Washington, DC
<JeffPorten@aol.com>
Do-it-yourself HTML:
It's true that there are tons of ways to learn good HTML
programming on the 'Net, and that it's silly to hire a consultant
for personal home page construction. However, the point must be
made that just as in desktop publishing, knowing the code does
not mean good end results. I *strongly* recommend that people
who want to use the Web for commercial purposes (either
professional information sharing, or commerce) hire a consultant
to design the pages, or at least review works-in-progress. A
consultant should be chosen on the basis of PRIOR WORK viewed
live on the Net, not marketing pitches.
For anyone who wants to learn good commercial HTML practices, I
recommend reading the "Inet-Marketing" mailing list, run by Glenn
Fishman:
mail "subscribe inet-marketing Your Name" to <listproc@popco.com>
[I also subscribe to that mailing list - It's fine quality, and
fascinating reading!]
Iomega drives:
Iomega has announced the development of the Viper drive, due for
release in 3Q '95. It's a Zip drive, with 1 gig on each disk.
Prices are slated (and obviously, all this is vaporous and might
change) to be $599 for the drive and one disk, $100 for
additional disks.
Publish and subscribe:
A very good use for P&S is to use editions when you have to
change a block of text and have that automatically ripple through
a large document. I publish the original block, and have the
rest of the document subscribe to itself. This has helped with
tables of contents and indices, and occasional boilerplate
documents. Keep all editions in a separate folder, out of the
way.
Improvements on Stickies:
I am using Now QuickPad, an integral part of the highly
recommended Now Up-to-Date 3.5 and Now Contact 3.5. A hotkey
brings up a dialog box (a fast, small application), with a notes
field and the option to attach it to an appointment, to-do, or
contact. URLs, or anything else that I want to remember later, I
toss into a to-do, which I later classify as Back Burner
priority. Then I go through them after my higher priority items
are finished.
This is a very efficient way of dealing with lots of incoming
data. I read it using EasyView on my external monitor, with
QuickPad on the PowerBook internal monitor. Anything that bears
remembering, I toss into the QuickPad, and trust Up-to-Date to
bring it to my attention later, but only when appropriate. I
have another QuickPad window, where I kept running notes on what
to include in this letter. AOL is running in the background;
when I choose to reply to anything I see, I type it up offline
and get right back to work.
For those who do not want to switch to Now Software, there is a
utility that seems to be similar to QuickPad called Guy Friday,
available in shareware. (I have a copy that came with my La Cie
drive, but I recall seeing it in the Info-Mac archives.) I was
impressed with the design, but have not used it extensively.
Favorite Freeware
-----------------
By Mel Halbert <halbert@orph01.phy.ornl.gov>
In case you are still running your Favorite Freeware collection,
I have several useful items to mention. Some of these were
perhaps not in existence when you first called for such items,
but at least the first two were. All of these programs are
currently available from Info-Mac sites.
Hexedit: A program by Jim Bumgardner that displays the contents
of any file byte by byte in hex and ASCII, and allows the user to
change or insert/delete bytes. According to his documentation,
it has some advantages over Apple's FEdit utility, but I am not
familiar with that. (I do have ResEdit, but have never figured
out how to examine files with it.)
/info-mac/dev/hex-edit-107.hqx
Drop*PS: A program by Rich Siegel that prints a PostScript file
with a minimum of fuss.
/info-mac/prn/drop-ps-113.hqx
SimpleText Color Menu: A program by Alessandro Levi Montalcini
that adds features to SimpleText. It includes a Color menu that
allows inserting text in color, but to me its most important
feature is the addition of Find and Replace to SimpleText, making
it a much more useful program.
/info-mac/text/simpletext-color-menu-211.hqx
Drop*Rename: A program by Bob Bradley that allows similarly-named
files to be renamed with one entry of the desired replacement
string. For example, when I download a bunch of
mac-chat-0xx-etx.txt files and want to change their names to
Mac*Chat#0xx-etx.txt, I just select the group of files, drop them
onto the Drop*Rename icon, and type in the appropriate Search and
Replace character strings. (This kind of operation is normally a
pain with a Mac, though it is easy on a computer having a
command-line interface.)
/info-mac/disk/drop-rename-110.hqx
Dos2Mac: A drag & drop utility by Thierry Sourbier to convert
PC-style text files to Mac format, and vice versa (automatically
knows which way to convert!). It has some features that
DosWasher does not have that may be important for text containing
special characters. He has also posted a French-language version
which is amusing to compare to see the translation of various
menu items.
/info-mac/text/dos-to-mac-10.hqx
FileList+: By Bill Patterson. This is a disk cataloging utility
with lots of options, almost too many for a beginner to
understand. After some playing around with it, I developed a set
of options than suit my needs and I use the program every day.
There are, of course, a large number of disk cataloging programs
out there and more appearing every month or so. Most are not
free, and most that I have checked out omit some feature present
in FileList+ that I can't live without. Among the better
alternatives that I am aware of is Disk Wizard 2.0 (shareware),
by Francois Pottier, and Floppy Catalogue 2.0, by Antoine Maklouf
(free).
The last version of FileList+ was 1.0b21 and it still is
available on Info-Mac and elsewhere. However, this version
introduced a bug in one of the sorting features I really wanted,
so I went back to version 1.0b20 (released in Dec. 1991!). The
author wrote in his last release that he was going commercial and
there would be no further public domain releases. In August 1994
I sent him a letter outlining the problem I just mentioned and
asking what was the name and publisher of the commercial version.
Alas! I received no response whatever despite having enclosed a
stamped, self-addressed envelope. So I just keep on with 1.0b20.
/info-mac/disk/disk-wizard-2.0.hqx
/info-mac/disk/floppy-catalogue-2.0.hqx
/info-mac/disk/file-list-plus-10b21.hqx
(Note that the URL given is for version 1.0b21 because version
1.0b20 was purged from all Internet archives long ago. If you do not
need the Sort option "Files by path (& last)", 1.0b21 will work fine.
Excellent Questions For The Week
--------------------------------
By Rick Sciacca <rsciacca@vcomm.net>
Have there been any reviews of Connectix's Speed Doubler? There
ads/hype say it will speed up most macs, but I've heard
elsewhere that its basically useless on anything but a PPC. How
about aasking your readers if they have it installed on a non-PPC
and if it really works, or does it just take up RAM and Disk
space?
--------
By Jake Peters, MacSupport, Boston, Ma <jhp@shore.net>
http://www.shore.net/~jhp/jakehome.html
How about posting a question that asks readers to review the Zip
vs. SyQuest's EZ135. I am in the market for one of these drives
for backup and my small consulting business for transporting the
many Apple System software updates around (don't worry I am a
student at work in Boston for mainly families that I know who own
Macs, so no local consulting competition here).
But, while the EZ is clearly faster, I read something about how
their cartridge platters were second rate. Do you know if this
true? Also I think that Zip seems to be head the way of becoming
the industry standard as the next floppy disk. Do you think this
will happen?
Charities Need Help
-------------------
By Lynn D. Gottlieb <lynndeg@carson.u.washington.edu>
Don't know where you reside, so I'll assume it's not in WA, AK,
ID or MT. I work for Harborview Medical Center, the trauma/burn
center for 25% of the US land mass. I manage the Rehabilitation
Learning Center, a privately funded project (gets its money from
individual contributions) that is developing multimedia to teach
persons with spinal cord injuries (like Christopher Reeve) the
skills they need in order for them to leave the in-patient
rehabilitation environment and function successfully in society.
I'm also a well-known Mac User and bigot - I met my first Mac in
1984 (oh, those 128k Macs!), fell in love, and haven't fallen out
of love yet.
I commend your not wanting to take handouts from companies. I do
have a suggestion. There must be a charitable organization in
your hometown or neighborhood that uses Macs. If they're
anything like us, they live a hand-to-mouth existence. Much time
is spent trying to get money to survive. Today's political
climate doesn't help non-profits one whit. Most of us look at
up-to-date hardware and software as a pipe dream.
So why not give the folks who want to give you freebies a list
with the names, addresses and phone numbers of 3 charities that
you know of who use Macs. Tell them that you don't want any
freebies, but you'd appreciate it if they would donate the stuff
to one of these organizations instead...
If you do live in WA, AK, ID or MT, I'm sure you know of
Harborview's stellar reputation. Perhaps we could be one of
those three charities. If you live outside of our serving area,
I'm sure you could find some worthwhile Mac-using charitable
organization.
[I can't say the idea of allowing ANY outside influence
completely appeals to me, but I will gladly pass your request
along. Folks reading this should also look at the shelves above
their Mac - Are there older versions of Word, Illustrator, or
whatever that you don't use any more? Those manuals and diskettes
are badly needed by schools and every other kind of charity.]
More About Claris Works 4.0
---------------------------
By russgold@netaxs.com (Russell Gold)
I saw a very complimentary mention on ClarisWorks 4 in your last
Mac*Chat and, while I largely agree, I want to point out one
discrepancy: Claris claims that the product "supports
Worldscript." Actually, it only supports the Japanese and
Chinese Language Kits. If you delve deeply into the
documentation, you discover that it has no support for
right-to-left or contextual scripts, such as Hebrew and Arabic.
In fact, I find it extremely easy to crash the program if I have
the Hebrew script installed.
Claris justifies this omission by pointing out that only the
Japanese and Chinese Language kits are officially released by
Apple as commercial products; however, the resources for other
languages are readily accessible from Apple's ftp site:
ftp://ftp.apple.com/dts/mac/sys.soft.intl/
in the foreign versions of System 7.0.1 and work just fine in
System 7.0-7.5 (directions for using them are found in IM VI).
Unfortunately, only SimpleText, Nisus Writer, and Worldwrite
actually give true support for Worldscript. I am not crazy about
the latter two because they require a hardware dongle to use
non-Roman scripts, and SimpleText, of course, is wholly
inadequate for serious work processing.
I find Claris's claim particularly egregious because of their
association with Apple - they really should know better!
--------
By Guy Howe, Australia <g.howe@student.anu.edu.au>
I have been using ClarisWorks 4.0 for a couple of months fairly
heavily now. And it's *sort of* great.
What I mean is, I was a big fan of earlier versions, and this one
does everything they do and more, and all of the new things are
good things (eg. sections, and I particularly like the way you
can free rotate *anything*).
But the styles, in particular, are just a bit too odd.
Try taking a paragraph and setting it to one paragraph style,
then another. Try a few different ones. Then, click the edit
button in the styles palette, and notice the italicised
formatting in the styles definition. Those are, so far as I can
tell, formatting that is applied to the paragraph over and above
or instead of the style definition.
So, by applying styles and then overriding them, you seem to wind
up with parts of the previous styles left hanging around. And
that's just plain daft. That said, I use the styles, but I have
to work around them a lot. By the way, the manual doesn't tell
you, but you can remove the extra, italicised formatting
information -- or at least *most* of it (it doesn't always
entirely work for reasons I can't work out) by switching the
styles pallette to edit mode and use click/shift-click to select
all the italicised formatting information, then you choose Clear
Properties from the little Edit menu in the pallette. Play with
the styles for a while; you'll soon see what I mean.
On the other hand, I like being able to use styles in the drawing
module and whatnot. Oh yeah, and it's annoying that there is no
'Keep with Next', 'Keep Lines Together', or 'Page Break Before'
settings for paragraphs or paragraph styles. And it's too hard to
edit the outline hierarchy's definitions -- you can't get at the
subsidiary styles (say, Harvard level 3) without clicking in a
paragraph in an outline style.
The second major annoyance is the outliner. Okay, it is useful,
but still badly thought out.
In Word (I know Word 5 backwards, and styles and the outliner
were the ONLY things I liked about it; but I liked them a *lot*),
you can have outline levels which applied paragraph styles, just
like in ClarisWorks 4.0, but there was one outline for the entire
document. This meant you could have non-outline styles (ie body
text and the like) in between the outline paragraphs, and it
would treat them as 'attached' to the immediately preceding
outline heading, and you could hide them, move them with it, etc.
In ClarisWorks, any non-outline styles between outline paragraphs
breaks the outline. They are not hidden when you collapse the
outline level, they don't move with the heading when you move it,
and they cause the numbering to restart after them. Is Claris
kidding here? Sure, I can use the outline style really nicely for
bullet points and whatnot, and for planning the document when I
am just tossing the structure around, but once I start typing in
the text of my document, suddenly, the outliner is of little use.
Oh yeah, and you can't drag outline paragraphs if they don't have
any space or a number of bullet or something to their left.
ClarisWorks would be a total Microsquish killer (in
functionality, if not in marketing...) if it had styles that
worked like Microsquish's (or rather, which kept the best parts
of the way they're done now, 'coz there's some good ideas in
there), and an outliner that worked like Microsquish's, and had
Keep with Next and so on in paragraph formatting.
But frankly, and I hate to have to say this, but I can produce
most text documents faster in Word than in anything else,
including the latest versions of WordPerfect, Write Now, Nisus,
and so on, just because of the synergy between the simple but
elegant outliner and the simple but elegant styles. I can't
believe that there *still* isn't a word processor or integrated
package on the Mac with a decent outliner, other than that horrid
Microsquish monster.
The really astounding thing is that Claris got styles almost
exactly right in MacWrite Pro. All it needed was an outliner.
*Sigh*.
Tips For Consultants
--------------------
By Weston1@netcom.com (Dave Weston, CDP)
Consultants travel fast. Per Rudyard Kipling: "he travels the
fastest who travels alone." My view: consultants travel all by
themselves much of the time.
I've been full-time computer consultant 24 years. For me,
working alone is the one shortcoming of consulting: No one to
talk with. No one to test new ideas. To stay sharp, I need
sparring partners.
Wish someone had given me this advice when I started: If you're
thinking about going out on your own consulting, be prepared for
intense, professional, aloneness. Find antidotes to that to keep
your mind fresh.
I currently have three valuable sources for meeting other
consultants who feel the same:
#1: Macintosh Consultants Network. International group of
approximately 200 professional Mac pros. Informal
meeting/conference once or twice a year.
Sparkling exchange of ideas in seminars, at meals, at the
bar. Never-ending stream of Mac talk from, for, and by
consultants who make our living doing this. For me, a joy and a
rejuvenation.
For info on Macintosh Consultants Network (MCN), contact
John Friedlander, Executive Director: <70744.2760@Compuserve.Com>
#2: Macintosh Consultants Dinner Group - Los Angeles / Southern
California
#3: Macintosh Consultants Dinner Group - San Francisco
Both above are informal, casual groups of Mac consultants
who get together every few months for dinner. Lots of
"Appletalk" and business-talk from consultants' perspective.
Chance to be with people who are smarter than I am. For an
independent consultant, that's nourishment.
Many who attend are MCN members - but not limited to that.
Welcome public consultants who offer services to other businesses
and internal consultants who support Macs within a company or
organization. But expect to be among major-league Mac pros ...
this is not a neighborhood user group.
Usually one or two vendors attend - software or hardware -
bringing news of new offerings, questions about what we need in
Mac market, sometimes NFR samples of their products for desert.
No dues or fees. No business meetings. No formal
requirements. We just split the dinner check among ourselves.
My office maintains the mailing lists for both dinner
groups. To be notified of dinners in your area, e-mail to:
<Weston1@Netcom.Com>
Your name:
Snail mail address:
city/state/zip:
Fax:
Tel:
Why all that? Because I am experimenting to find best way to
notify people of dinner when/where.
Wrap it up here with Kipling on traveling fast: My words now,
paraphrasing his: Whether you go to hell, or you go to heaven,
you'll get there fastest if you find your own way!
Online Support For Consultants
------------------------------
By robertso@sdsc.edu (MR Mac - Michael Robertson) (by way of
pmorgan@morgan-news.com (Peter Morgan Morgan:Newsletters))
Just a quick reminder to use the WWW to get all the information
you would possibly want about supporting Macs.
Apple continues to improve their www site:
www.apple.com
(but if you log in to use it, be sure and leave them an email
message telling them to make it SEARCHABLE!!! - Come on Apple.)
There's a list of Apple sponsored (one way) mailing lists so
you'll be the first on the block to know about new releases. Sign
up for these at:
http://www.info.apple.com/listproc/lists.html
End all, be all Mac WWW starting points with pointers to great
sources of info including Mac software/hardware vendors, price
lists, etc.:
http://www.macfaq.com/
http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~xray/mac.html
You'll find FAQs (frequently asked questions) at:
http://rever.nmsu.edu/~elharo/faq/Macintosh.html
And when in doubt, it doesn't hurt to try:
www.companynamehere.com (with your favorite www browser)
ftp.companynamehere.com (with your favorite ftp browser)
Online User Groups
------------------
By Bart De Gruyter, Bureau Studenten Raad van Bestuur
<bdegruyt@is1.vub.ac.be >
Here's some info on the Belgian Macintosh User Group, MacBel UG
in short. We are non-profit, more info can be found on:
http://www.ping.be/~macbel/
We provide bimonthly magazines, internet access, and meetings to
all Belgian Members.
Boston MacWorld '95 Reviewed
----------------------------
By The Mac*Chat ListOwner <shrim@bubba.ocis.temple.edu>
The MacWorld Experience!
MacWorld 95 - Boston was such an interesting experience. If it
was a scorcher sun outside, inside it was the mammoth crowd
experimenting with the new Clones and some of the very cool third
party software that goes hand in hand to make the Macintosh what
it is today!
The Clones arrive with a BANG!
Radius, Power Computing and Daystar unfolded the Apple Macintosh
Clone myth into reality to the public as Apple introduced the new
PowerMacs the 7200, 7500 and 8500 series. While you can get a
7200 for a mere US$1700, PowerComputing lowered its Power100 line
to the same US$1700 too. This prompted Radius to reduce its
lower-cost Radius 81/110 (110MHz 601, 16M, 730M, QuadSpeed
CD-ROM) to US$3500. Radius has the superb monitors best suited
for high end digital imaging applications. The GenesisMP from
Daystar is a high end media- publishing workstation comes with
(4)132 MHz 604, 16-32M, 2GB, Quad Speed CD-ROM, (6) PCI slots and
nPOWER multiprocessing extension for Adobe Photoshop 3.0, Kodak
Color Management and PhotoCD.
The future looks very promising, but with all this competition
does it mean high-end Mac/Compatibles at astonishingly lower
prices remains to be seen.
<http://www.info.apple.com/launch/>
<http://www.radius.com/>
<http://www.daystar.com/gen.html>
<http://www.powercc.com>
On the software front there were hordes of them. There was an
striking emphasis on 3D Modeling and Web publishing tools.
Starnine introduced WebStar 1.2 with built-in SSL support and
Ceneca's PageMill - a fantastic HTML editor - stole the show on
the WebServer/Publishing front.
<http://www.starnine.com>
<http://www.ceneca.com>
Strata's StudioPro, Specular's Infini-D, Avid VideoShop, Adobe's
Photoshop booths were always filled up to the brim if not
overcrowded. Deneba Software demonstrated Canvas5 while Apple's
QuickTime VR booth was flooded. QuickDraw 3D-savvy applications
were very popular.
<http://www.specular.com>
<http://www.adobe.com>
<http://www.strata3d.com>
Gary Hornbuckle swiftly cleared the myth revolving around Open
Transport. Right now OT1.0.6 ships as a built-in Mac OS component
with the newer PowerMacs and also the 9500, and the release v1.1
expected in the later part of the year will have support for
68030 and 68040s.
<ftp://seeding.apple.com/ess/public/opentransport/>
All in all, yet another fruitful MacWorld Experience!
Legalisms
---------
Copyright 1989-1995 Tony Lindsey. Nonprofit groups (such as Mac
User Groups) or other non-commercial publications) are welcome
to use any part of the Mac*Chat newsletters if full credit is
given. All others will need to contact me.
This newsletter is intended purely as entertainment and free
information. No profit has been made from any of these
opinions. Time passes, so accuracy may diminish.
Publication, product, and company names may be registered
trademarks of their companies.
This file is formatted as setext, which can be read on any text reader.
Tips from readers are gratefully accepted. Please write them in a
user-friendly way, and if you are mentioning an Internet site,
please include a paragraph explaining why others should visit it.
Free Subscriptions To This Newsletter
-------------------------------------
You may subscribe to Mac*Chat by sending e-mail to:
listserv@vm.temple.edu
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In the body of the message include the following line:
SUBSCRIBE MACCHAT Your full name
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You will receive a nice long message explaining acceptance of your
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============== ____ ================================================
Tony Lindsey \ _/__ Free, weekly e-mailed Mac-oriented newsletter
Mac*Chat Editor \X / xxltony@cts.com, http://www.cts.com/~xxltony/
================= \/ ===============================================